Ok, so I did something stupid:

The game has multiple different water types. Of all of them, ocean water overwrites all others. I thought it would be funny to overwrite the entire maps water with ocean water (because ocean water is the prettiest). So now I am fishing in the Wilderness biome to get Scarlet ore but despite being in the SCARLET BIOME. . . I am still getting Sunken Sea loot cause if the water channels overlap, the sunken sea water has priority.

And I am ok with the water issue, the problem is the fishing loot shouldn't be based on the type of water your fishing in (as water type should be a cosmetic thing), it should be based on the biome the map says you are in.

Uhh... so ... you made a mistake, and you want the devs to change the way the game works because of that?

Is there a reason you don't just create a new world, and move to that one?

Going to agree with Nakos on this one. I understand your frustration, but the current system solves more problems than it creates.

Originally posted by Enoa:

Going to agree with Nakos on this one. I understand your frustration, but the current system solves more problems than it creates.

Explain how making the loot based on the biome is more problematic than making it based on the water where said water can just be lost forever?

For the record, I don't want it fixed because I made a mistake, I want it fixed because that's not the better alternative design wise. I only found out about this design issue BECAUSE of the mistake (which is why I pointed it out to begin with). I assumed at the start that it was biome based because from a design perspective, that's just what makes sense as that much is just more structurally sound.

Let me be clear, even if I didn't do this, I would still want this changed just from the conceptual aspect of making it more consistent. If you want that loot, you should need to go to that biome. Other than mob spawns, that's how everything else in this game works. And even with mob spawns, that's something that can be undone as it's based off of placable ground tiles.

Originally posted by Vental:

Originally posted by Enoa:

Going to agree with Nakos on this one. I understand your frustration, but the current system solves more problems than it creates.

Explain how making the loot based on the biome is more problematic than making it based on the water where said water can just be lost forever?

For the record, I don't want it fixed because I made a mistake, I want it fixed because that's not the better alternative design wise. I only found out about this design issue BECAUSE of the mistake (which is why I pointed it out to begin with). I assumed at the start that it was biome based because from a design perspective, that's just what makes sense as that much is just more structurally sound.

Let me be clear, even if I didn't do this, I would still want this changed just from the conceptual aspect of making it more consistent. If you want that loot, you should need to go to that biome. Other than mob spawns, that's how everything else in this game works. And even with mob spawns, that's something that can be undone as it's based off of placable ground tiles.

I think what you want to achieve is perfectly fine. The current system is one where the "Biomes" are clearly defined.
If we want to recreate them, we can do so to a degree. You can have biome-specific enemies spawn, re-route water, and decorate to your heart's desire.
However, the game will not make it an official biome, but is this a problem?
Everything that defines a biome is something we can manipulate.
There is an item called the water well; Its use is for gardening. If we could somehow draw water from different biomes and move it around with buckets, that would make it more accessible. You wouldn't need a well if buckets could draw directly from present sources.

There's another post from last year that I believe wants something similar.
"Allow us to create artificial biomes.
Since the Forgotten Ruins and Azeos Wilderness don't use special water types and only have "plain" water. Can something be implemented to 'change' the biome of plain water to those so we can run it to our base? Terraria does this by having 50+ biome blocks in an area to 'transform' it. We could do something similar with floor pieces and walls?" -Jack Forsythe

Terraria's artificial biome creation is an example of the ideal.

When I said that the current system solves more problems than it creates, I felt locking loot to a game-defined "biome" was inefficient and restricting freedom. (I should've been more clear on my opinion to begin with, as my first response was very unhelpful, my bad.)

I believe you're accurately pointing out a flaw; I don't think your solution is the ideal, even though it would work.

Hm.. okay.

Well, I can see the idea of wanting the water based environments to be more manipulatable.

But I'm skeptical that the OP's issue represents a problem that most people are likely to encounter.

Allowing players a function to determine which type of water is dominant, and then allowing them to apply that via a bucket/well system seems like an easier solution.

Add a key ingredient to a well (via the same UI that the Wardrobe/Dresser currently provides) and then water from that well (with a "bucket") will convert any body of water to the type indicated by the key item.

Originally posted by Enoa:

Originally posted by Vental:

Explain how making the loot based on the biome is more problematic than making it based on the water where said water can just be lost forever?

For the record, I don't want it fixed because I made a mistake, I want it fixed because that's not the better alternative design wise. I only found out about this design issue BECAUSE of the mistake (which is why I pointed it out to begin with). I assumed at the start that it was biome based because from a design perspective, that's just what makes sense as that much is just more structurally sound.

Let me be clear, even if I didn't do this, I would still want this changed just from the conceptual aspect of making it more consistent. If you want that loot, you should need to go to that biome. Other than mob spawns, that's how everything else in this game works. And even with mob spawns, that's something that can be undone as it's based off of placable ground tiles.

I think what you want to achieve is perfectly fine. The current system is one where the "Biomes" are clearly defined.
If we want to recreate them, we can do so to a degree. You can have biome-specific enemies spawn, re-route water, and decorate to your heart's desire.
However, the game will not make it an official biome, but is this a problem?
Everything that defines a biome is something we can manipulate.
There is an item called the water well; Its use is for gardening. If we could somehow draw water from different biomes and move it around with buckets, that would make it more accessible. You wouldn't need a well if buckets could draw directly from present sources.

There's another post from last year that I believe wants something similar.
"Allow us to create artificial biomes.
Since the Forgotten Ruins and Azeos Wilderness don't use special water types and only have "plain" water. Can something be implemented to 'change' the biome of plain water to those so we can run it to our base? Terraria does this by having 50+ biome blocks in an area to 'transform' it. We could do something similar with floor pieces and walls?" -Jack Forsythe

Terraria's artificial biome creation is an example of the ideal.

When I said that the current system solves more problems than it creates, I felt locking loot to a game-defined "biome" was inefficient and restricting freedom. (I should've been more clear on my opinion to begin with, as my first response was very unhelpful, my bad.)

I believe you're accurately pointing out a flaw; I don't think your solution is the ideal, even though it would work.

I like where your head is at, the only reason why I point this out though is because 1: the color of the water I personally find should be an aesthetic difference, not a mechanical one. Like I said, ocean water is just outright prettier. The inherent issue is of having to choose fashion or function. I don't see why we couldn't have both. You brought up artificial biome control. Combined that with making fishing biome-specific makes it so we can have the best of all worlds. Cosmetic water, fishing loot based on region rather than cosmetic differences.

But that draws me to the 2nd reason I point this out: Not all water is equal. Each liquid variant has a priority system internally; A hierarchy. If we say abyss is level 0 liquid, then the water in the dirt biome is level 1. You know that light teal water you find in the wilderness biome sometimes, that would be level 2, the max level I found was ocean water (though, there could be a higher one beyond that), lets call that level 3. If you put a level 2 water tile next to a level 1, the level 2 will always override the level 1. You can not turn a higher level water into a lower level water. You can only turn it up or build ground over it to dry it out (which is not at all viable given how far water spreads). Meaning as you stated with your example of manipulating the water using wells in that biome, this would kinda work. . . if it weren't for the water "infection" system for what water has priory over others. This is the "water issue" that I referring to that I said I was ok with, the way it spreads.



The ultimate issue again that I think I am pointing out is that the spread mechanics lead to some accidents, and if you want water to be cosmetically different, you can't have that without it also being mechanically different in the current system. I said make it biome dependent for the reason that it is the least amount of work needed in order to fix the issue from a development side. The easiest solution to implement if anything is done at all. Keep in mind, there are areas in the world where if you open your map, it will say that you aren't in a biome (like where the great wall would be), in those areas where there isn't a biome, that's where it should be water dependent where there is no biome to be dependent on.

Originally posted by Nakos:

Hm.. okay.

Well, I can see the idea of wanting the water based environments to be more manipulatable.

But I'm skeptical that this represents a problem that most people are likely to encounter.

Allowing players a function to determine which type of water is dominant, and then allowing them to apply that via a bucket/well system seems like an easier solution.

Add a key ingredient to a well (via the same UI that the Wardrobe/Dresser currently provides) and then water from that well (with a "bucket") will convert any body of water to the type indicated by the key item.

As I replied to Enoa. My issue is the cosmetic difference in water requires you to also use the mechanical difference. I think your UI idea for the well has some merit to it, however, you would need 2 slots: 1 for cosmetic, and 1 for mechanic. A "dye" slot and a "transmogrifier" slot. I could see this being added to the bait station to craft water dye and biome chumming. The transmogrifier slot would be needed as it would override the water spread priority system. . . though. . . this might be weird if you try to override say, the sunken sea, where all the water is connected. :/

I compare it to the wardrobe station:
How armor has a cosmetic difference AND a mechanical one. They fix this by separating the 2 and giving you a cosmetic armor slot that cosmetically overrides the mechanical armor you are wearing without overriding the mechanical aspect of the armor. I am suggesting something in a similar vein about giving us control over the mechanical and cosmetic aspect of water.

As you said, most people wouldn't run into the issue because most people wouldn't manipulate the water. By that same logic, most people wouldn't notice the backend change how the loot table would work (that's done to make the system more foolproof) cause all the water they would be fishing in would most likely already be in the biome they would be fishing in. I suggested it this way as it's the most under-the-hood method that will have the least amount of people noticing any major difference while still keeping consistency with original world generation with where you are "meant" to fish at. I do acknowledge it gives up a niche level of control for where your fishing spots are as far as biome manipulation goes, but as you stated, not many people would utilize this to say something is lost. I compare it to the ore deposits. You can't exactly move those around. You drill where you are "meant" to drill. The benefit would be making the backend systems less susceptible to error and allowing more balance for fishing spot location percentages (as in, ~x% of the map will always be this loot table for fishing no matter what you do) while also allowing for slightly more user choice to the cosmetic aspect of water without losing a loot table when one overrides the other.

so instead of just going to my fishing spot where i have every biomes water type in one spot u would have me teleport all over the map to fish because u destroyed all the water in your world except the color u like? did u also destroy all the rest of the biomes and remake them into the biome that u aesthetically prefer? u not only want fashion over function, u want YOUR fashion over function

u destroyed the water the fish were in therefore u killed all the fishes. then u dug a canal from another body of water with different types of fish and drained that water to where u destroyed the previous water and u expect the fishes to magically come back to life and live just fine in a totally different environment than the one they were adapted to live in?

if u actually go " under the hood" sometime, try replacing all the fluids with your favorite colored fluid and see how that goes. i hope your car blows up before u get down the road because your brakes will fail unless your favorite color is dirty yellow or blue. and then u will be a true danger to society. maybe u get the car companies to make all fluids like the way u want since u dont like variety.

imo, your logic isnt logical at all and your arguement for it is self defeating. if not many people would notice the change they why make the change? would this change benefit anybody besides u? i dont think so. i doubt anybody else playing this game did something so extreme and reckless as replacing all water with one color. that is some extreme ocd stuff. its not logical at all and very uncreative. as an uncreative person myself i try incorporate more colors and become more creative. because if i just made all my stuff one color, it might please my eye but will look pale in comparison to creative base makers and boring to every body. i actually did make all the water at my base sunken sea and am now in the process of incorporating more water colors in an attempt to become more artsy and creative.

u broke your world and u should suffer the consequences of it and you are. now u have to move to a different world... dont break that one too. learn from your mistakes instead of trying to alter reality. because what u dont realise is this would punish lots of people for your mistake and i dont want to be punished because u u did something stupid as u admitted and your singular color preference instead of enjoying a wide spectrum of colors

ur going the wrong way dude. u need to become more creative and learn to incorporate more colors. boulders arent alive and u cant replace them at all so comparing them to fishes isnt logical at all. by your so called logic bush types wouldnt affect the enemies that spawn out of them either, only the biomes would. and u wouldnt be able to grow plants either except in their biome specific territory. thats why fish behave like mobs as u pointed out. but your wrong about them only behaving like mobs. they behave like plants too. because these things are alive and they behave like living things just like the real world.

Originally posted by deadskinmask4:

so instead of just going to my fishing spot where i every biomes water type in one spot u would have me teleport all over the map to fish because u destroyed all the water in your world except the color u like? did u also destroy all the rest of the biomes and remake them into the biome that u aesthetically prefer? u not only want fashion over function, u want YOUR fashion over function

u destroyed the water the fish were in therefore u killed all the fishes. then u dug a canal from another body of water with different types of fish and drained that water to where u destroyed the previous water and u expect the fishes to magically come back to life and live just fine in a totally different environment than the one they were adapted to live in?

if u actually go " under the hood" sometime, try replacing all the fluids with your favorite colored fluid and see how that goes. i hope your car blows up before u get down the road because your brakes will fail unless your favorite color is dirty yellow or blue. and then u will be a true danger to society. maybe u get the car companies to make all fluids like the way u want since u dont like variety.

imo, your logic isnt logical at all and your arguement for it is self defeating. if not many people would notice the change they why make the change? would this change benefit anybody besides u? i dont think so. i doubt anybody else playing this game did something so extreme and reckless as replacing all water with one color. that is some extreme ocd stuff. its not logical at all and very uncreative. as an uncreative person myself i try incorporate more colors and become more creative. because if i just made all my stuff one color, it might please my eye but will look pale in comparison to creative base makers and boring to every body. i actually did make all the water at my base sunken sea and am now in the process of incorporating more water colors in an attempt to become more artsy and creative.

u broke your world and u should suffer the consequences of it and you are. now u have to move to a different world... dont break that one too. learn from your mistakes instead of trying to alter reality. because what u dont realise is this would punish lots of people for your mistake and i dont want to be punished because u u did something stupid as u admitted and your singular color preference instead of enjoying a wide spectrum of colors

ur going the wrong way dude. u need to become more creative and learn to incorporate more colors. boulders arent alive and u cant replace them at all so comparing them to fishes isnt logical at all. by your so called logic bush types wouldnt affect the enemies that spawn out of them either, only the biomes would.

He admitted to doing something unorthodox. There's nothing wrong with his suggestion. This topic focuses more on the direction you might want the water system to move and less on what's "right' or "wrong".
Plenty of people do "weird" things in games every day. There's nothing wrong with having fun. The ability to revert changes you make, or have systems in place that allow you to alter things cosmetically to your preference, shouldn't affect anyone negatively.
My ideas and thoughts differ from Vental's, but this is a simple suggestion for more functionality.

Originally posted by Enoa:

He admitted to doing something unorthodox. There's nothing wrong with his suggestion. This topic focuses more on the direction you might want the water system to move and less on what's "right' or "wrong".
Plenty of people do "weird" things in games every day. There's nothing wrong with having fun. The ability to revert changes you make, or have systems in place that allow you to alter things cosmetically to your preference, shouldn't affect anyone negatively.
My ideas and thoughts differ from Vental's, but this is a simple suggestion for more functionality.

My ideas are the way they are only because it's coming off of the standpoint of: things are more likely to be implemented the easier they are to develop. Therefore I pitch it in a way that avoids the more extravagant methods and instead are easiest to program theoretically by just altering table manipulation rather than adding in new systems/reworking pre-established systems from the ground up nor adding more UI, menus, or sprite work. I never said it was the best idea nor most ideal way of tackling the topic, rather just that it would be the shortest path to tackle the topic. It's partially a cosmetic topic, partially a balancing topic, as you stated.

no! he admitted to doing something stupid. there is nothing unorthodox or weird here at all. changing an environment to suit your preference is neither weird or unorthodox. this is what humans do.. it is one of the few things that separates us from animals. there can be consequences for that if u arent careful

nobody said anything about fun being wrong.

just because u think doing something stupid shouldnt affect u negatively doesnt change reality that if u do stupid things u will suffer consequences for your actions

The ability to revert changes you make, or have systems in place that allow you to alter things cosmetically to your preference, doesnt affect anyone negatively. but it takes work. vental doesnt want to put the work in. he wants the dev to do the work for him. then i get to have all my work that wasnt stupid erased.

that function of terraria was stupid. i like the way this world does it. like the real world it is more realistic and makes sense. when i tried to move biomes close by so i didnt have to run more teleporters and warp all over the world to fishing spots and it didnt work i didnt say the game needs to be changed. i put the work in. salt water fish cannot live in fresh water and salt water isnt as pretty as clear fresh water.

if u agree that ventals way is more functional then why do u disagree with him? no... u just feel bad for vental and u are trying to make him feel better. if vental wants to feel better then help him be better. ppl pleasers dont help anybody, they hurt them

I don't think it should be based on where you are on the map. I think it should be based on which tile types are around the water tiles, this way you can form the world how you want
You know, like it was a sandbox game. ;)

Imagine mixing salt water and fresh water.

Now imagine how ridiculous biome-specific fish sound.

I have also just discovered this issue - I thought awesome, boats and an ocean biome - Ima canal from my base. It isn't obvious that water will take over other water. At least something like a "magic dye" that you can "place" onto a water block to cause it to spread to a different type would help alleviate this so you can change it back/create biome pools where you want them, fix your blunders and lessen the number of hours you spend crying alone at the bottom of the shower.

Originally posted by Nomadic:

Imagine mixing salt water and fresh water.

Now imagine how ridiculous biome-specific fish sound.

do you know that rivers exist?