Usually in games the plot is as if to say simplified. There is good and there is evil. There is a Commander Shepard who saves the galaxy and there is evil to defeat. Sometimes there is what is called deconstruction and evil is good and good is evil, but in essence it is the same.
We return the water chip, we find the shards of ancient evil we slain evil and ancient dragon, we uncover the conspiracies of lying heroes, we find our daughter, in general carry out our heroic mission. You get the idea.
Here we have demons that threaten the world and there is a good queen and a goddess. Let's go save the world again. But then something strange begins to happen. You don't know which are your enemies and which are your friends. It turns out that the forces are not monolithic and everyone pulls the blanket over himself. And in short it turns out that this story is more of a life story than a heroic one.
And all of this is very reminiscent of the story of a real crusade. The "Deus Vult" one you know. I once read a book on the history of the real Crusades and there just described the experience of a petty nobleman who began by writing how cool we are now liberating the Holy Land and in the end very disappointingly wrote that in the big scheme of things only interest power and money for the hell I went here.
To be honest I don't remember anyone trying to promote this rather cynical idea in games. Well, except in global 4x strategies.
What do you think?

This thread left me with a strange aftertaste.

Welcome to how the real world works. Each nation/country/government/propaganda machine is trying to tell you that you are good and others are bad. As george bush called them 'axis of evil'... but then USA does not teach its history the way it really happened: genocide for centuries and then overthrowing democratically elected governments all over and installing dictators.

i'll just state this, there is not a holy man in war. all is about propaganda and efficiency. this game still has clear evil and the "good" side is still mainly depicted as beneficial for the mortal world. but the hypocrisy told in the game about iomedae still shows this to be true

The demons are the worst but that does not mean that the crusaders/good guys are THAT good.

Treachery and hypocrisy can be found everywhere.

Even the heroic paladin leaders can fall quite short of what they were meant to be.

Sounds like a dose of realism to a fantasy game.

I never made it past the 3rd act.

Bugs broke my game.

Originally posted by ◕‿‿◕:

On the subject of demons there's a good episode in the game. When they tell you that you might have gotten the wrong impression of the demons as a dumb meat horde because originally the most brain-dead Deskari subordinates went through the world wound.
But when you get to their city Alushinyrra and it's clear that it's not much different from some Middle Eastern or African countries. I'm sure you could go to Somalia or Liberia or Palestine right now and see about the same thing.
A very strange impression is given by this plot.

Woah, you're sliding on a real slippery slope right there.

Well, that's the reason I didn't enjoy the game's story as much as I'd hoped. Instead of a classic epic fantasy of good vs evil, I got something that was eerily close to how real world works. And that sucks.

Originally posted by Myrmicus:

Originally posted by ◕‿‿◕:

On the subject of demons there's a good episode in the game. When they tell you that you might have gotten the wrong impression of the demons as a dumb meat horde because originally the most brain-dead Deskari subordinates went through the world wound.
But when you get to their city Alushinyrra and it's clear that it's not much different from some Middle Eastern or African countries. I'm sure you could go to Somalia or Liberia or Palestine right now and see about the same thing.
A very strange impression is given by this plot.

Woah, you're sliding on a real slippery slope right there.

ya ones worldview has to be really screwed up to make such a comparison

I've seen a lot of facepalm material on these forums but some of this thread's posts take the cake.

I really liked the Lich storyline. I mean, you just kill everyone. That's a rather unusual ending for a cRPG game! Especially for 99% parts of the game, I really wanted to kill Galfrey and Irabeth. I cannot understand how anyone can relate to them. So playing a Lich was strangely satisfying.

It has a weird, cut off ending. Imo. Otherwise, it's ok. Did I want more "Good vs Evil"? Yes. Can you get it? You can. Do some characters feel out of place? They sure do. But as long as it's badass and fun? I'm ok with it. More than in fact. Azata and Demon are my favorites right now, Angel was such a disappointment(except the end, but I can't judge solely upon that).

Originally posted by Gorwe:

It has a weird, cut off ending. Imo. Otherwise, it's ok. Did I want more "Good vs Evil"? Yes. Can you get it? You can. Do some characters feel out of place? They sure do. But as long as it's badass and fun? I'm ok with it. More than in fact. Azata and Demon are my favorites right now, Angel was such a disappointment(except the end, but I can't judge solely upon that).

The ending is really a bit well... yeah I was hoping that a witch as smart and cold-blooded as Areelu would want something more than her personal family problems.
I was expecting it to be an insane plan to gain divinity to defy the world order or something like that. After all a true scientist is indeed willing to sacrifice much to learn the fundamental answer to the ultimate question. Resurrecting a murdered child is a bit trivial.

Originally posted by ◕‿‿◕:

Originally posted by Gorwe:

It has a weird, cut off ending. Imo. Otherwise, it's ok. Did I want more "Good vs Evil"? Yes. Can you get it? You can. Do some characters feel out of place? They sure do. But as long as it's badass and fun? I'm ok with it. More than in fact. Azata and Demon are my favorites right now, Angel was such a disappointment(except the end, but I can't judge solely upon that).

The ending is really a bit well... yeah I was hoping that a witch as smart and cold-blooded as Areelu would want something more than her personal family problems.
I was expecting it to be an insane plan to gain divinity to defy the world order or something like that. After all a true scientist is indeed willing to sacrifice much to learn the fundamental answer to the ultimate question. Resurrecting a murdered child is a bit trivial.

Yes, I feel like they went entirely too Irenicus here. It don't fit Areelu.

Originally posted by ◕‿‿◕:

Originally posted by Gorwe:

It has a weird, cut off ending. Imo. Otherwise, it's ok. Did I want more "Good vs Evil"? Yes. Can you get it? You can. Do some characters feel out of place? They sure do. But as long as it's badass and fun? I'm ok with it. More than in fact. Azata and Demon are my favorites right now, Angel was such a disappointment(except the end, but I can't judge solely upon that).

The ending is really a bit well... yeah I was hoping that a witch as smart and cold-blooded as Areelu would want something more than her personal family problems.
I was expecting it to be an insane plan to gain divinity to defy the world order or something like that. After all a true scientist is indeed willing to sacrifice much to learn the fundamental answer to the ultimate question. Resurrecting a murdered child is a bit trivial.

kinda get it cause she was human at that point as well. they try to highlight her human aspect at that point. that's why later in the story if you don't really go with her like say with the angel path she has no issue killing you. but her human part still keeps the hope of succeding in the revival of her killed child

Originally posted by ◕‿‿◕:

Originally posted by CloudKira:

The demons are the worst but that does not mean that the crusaders/good guys are THAT good.

Treachery and hypocrisy can be found everywhere.

Even the heroic paladin leaders can fall quite short of what they were meant to be.

Sounds like a dose of realism to a fantasy game.

On the subject of demons there's a good episode in the game. When they tell you that you might have gotten the wrong impression of the demons as a dumb meat horde because originally the most brain-dead Deskari subordinates went through the world wound.
But when you get to their city Alushinyrra and it's clear that it's not much different from some Middle Eastern or African countries. I'm sure you could go to Somalia or Liberia or Palestine right now and see about the same thing.
A very strange impression is given by this plot.

that makes some of the dialog from seelah suspect. she always comes off as a victim. its pretty offensive to me. nobody in my party is racist, but somehow i feel it affecting seelah. really bothersome!

great game, really need to work on the race stuff, not all of us are victims